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New Orleans Saints 2021 Fantasy Football and TE Rankings by the Good Old Boys Fantasy Football
Intro 00:18
You’re listening to the good old boys fantasy football podcast. Now here’s your host, Kevin, Derek and Alex.
Derek 00:27
Alrighty. Welcome, and ladies and gentlemen to another episode of the good old boys fantasy football Podcast. I am Derek and I’m joined as always, by your co host, Kevin and Alex. Guys. How are we doing tonight?
Kevin 00:38
Doing good. I’m in the middle of a rookie dynasty draft for my work league. That’s a it’s an auction league that started last year. So we’re going through the rookie draft now and, man do I hate my team. But I’m glad I have good rookies coming in. So I’m happy about that. And other than that, just working my way through the best ball satellite tournament for Scott fishbowl, I’m pretty happy with my team there. But not much to complain about I’m drafting, I get to look at players and analyze them. Like I’m, I’m happy as can be.
Alex 01:13
I have actually honest to goodness, since we did the team, Derek that you and I were coding and one of the leagues that we all started from, I think it spawned from draft night, really, when we did that special. I haven’t done any fantasy drafts. So I’ve been I know I see your face. And I recognize that. But that just dawned on me that it’s been a minute since I’ve done any fantasy football drafting. So I guess take whatever I say with a grain of salt, because I’m out of the game for a second here. But it’s it’s a it’s almost time for me to turn my full attention to it and really get into it and, and for the first time in a long time, I will be able to actually kind of turn some attention to it because my job won’t be asking quite much of me during actual football season. So that’ll be a lot of fun.
Derek 02:15
There you go. I don’t know how you go as long as you’ve gone without drafting. Like I I get to a point where if I don’t have a draft going, you know, within you know, probably a week or so like I start going I gotta go find another league man like it’s, it’s so I don’t know how you can go that long.
Alex 02:33
I will say it’s not because I I don’t partake in other forms of friendly competition with other people. I am in a golf pool, a major pool for golf, that I’ve got some money tied up in and actually by some weird form of happenstance, I was in pretty much dead last after the masters and now I think I’m in second place overall after the US Open which everybody except for me, which I won that one just had a horrible outing. So British Open this week, this weekend, I’ve got to turn some attention to that to make sure that I can make some more money off of off of those. Those guys, which I know two other people in this pool. There’s like 10 of us, I think and I only know two other people in it, but I’m still there to take their money. You know, that’s fine by me. And so once I think once that major season passes, it’ll be full on football for me.
Derek 03:37
There you go. Um, yeah, I just pretty much full time football all the time. And we’ll sprinkle some other stuff in here and there. More on the this just a single game betting type of thing is how I get down on those ones. But, guys, we have a great show for you. Tonight, we’re going to talk some New Orleans Saints football, we’ve got our tight end rankings that we’re going to be bringing to you. Yo do us a favor, hop over on the YouTube, click that little subscribe button hit that little bell. We bring the show to live every Tuesday night 11pm. Eastern, as well as we’re over there on Twitch and Twitter live as well give us a follow on any of those three platforms. We very much appreciate it. Thanks for tuning in. Guys. Let’s go ahead and hit up some saints. We get the New Orleans Saints last year and change of an era which I’m sure we’ll get into very heavily here. Drew Brees will no longer be the quarterback but before we get into the quarterback room, we’re gonna start where we always do and that is in the running back room. So we’re going to start with Alvin Kamara who finished as the running back one last year 187 rush attempts, 932 rushing yards, 16 touchdowns, 83 receptions for 107 through the target through the air and 756 yards five touchdowns. Guys your thoughts on Alvin Kamara
Kevin 05:00
Learn Alvin Kamara. I have I have a decent amount of shares of him sprinkled throughout my many leagues. The one I’m most fond of is a is a work just a regular work half point PPR dynasty league where I picked him up as a rookie and have been able to pair him with Zeke and kind of ride him through there. So that’s been nice for me but Kumar obviously the biggest question mark with Kumar is, does he catch 80 balls from Jameis Winston slash Taysom Hill that’s gonna be a tough number to get to with with jamis and taysom. Even with the extra game, but what I do think we see is I think we see him go over 1000 yards rushing. I think that the 21 total touchdowns. I think we see some regression there. I think we’re probably going to end up seeing somewhere closer to 1516 total touchdowns is what I would think and come up for the season redraft league. I haven’t finishing at RB six. So still very respectable. That’s pretty much where he’s going off of draft boards. So he’s still a first round talent. He’s still a guy that you want to have on your roster. He’s still a guy that’s going to get tons and tons of usage because even though Drew Brees is no longer with the saints, Sean Payton is still the head coach, and he knows that he has two major playmakers on offense. One is Alvin Kamara and the other is a guy that we will get to shortly and Michael Thomas
Alex 06:37
Yeah, I think the biggest thing for me is is the the question mark around how does Kamara fare without Drew Brees? And you know, we’ve seen small sample sizes right? but not when drew was hurt. And jamis or taysom really was was the quarterback there. And my biggest concern is whichever way that they go, you know if they go with a Taysom Hill Taysom Hill, to me still has not developed into the quarterback. I mean, nobody on that roster is Drew Brees, obviously but to me, he’s still a one you know, first maybe second read before he’s going to tuck and run and just try and get whatever he can. And so the reason why I think tomorrow works so well with Drew Brees is because Drew Brees was the smartest player on the field whenever he was out there. And he understood what defenses were trying to do and he understood what defenses would give him and he understood how to utilize his playmakers now the two guys that are still left on that roster, they’re not at the level the the the mental level that Drew Brees was at or is that still really I think that the only reason that Drew Brees had to hang it up was because his body could not keep up with what his mind was asking of it. And so that that to me is a very big question mark and it’s a very scary situation. All that being said, I still think again, Kevin, I’m with you there I think that Kumar is you know going to be a threat and he’s he’s a first round you know, running back i don’t know i mean there there are a handful of guys that I take in front of them but he’s still a guy that I’d like to have on my roster.
Derek 08:18
You know, you bring up some some really good points there and even even with Drew Brees because we saw what this thing might look like without Drew Brees in it when he missed some time last year with with that rib injuries. And, and all of that and you still saw Alvin Kamara put up some very, very good weeks, you know, even with Taysom Hill being the quarterback, and if Jameis Winston is the quarterback there I think that actually helps Camaro more than Taysom Hill being there. But Kevin, I’m kind of right there along with with you on that one. I see him with over 1000 yards rushing, I see him going to actually break that 200 yard carry mark for you know, one of the first times in his career. I think the saints will utilize him a little bit more on the ground that they have necessarily in the past. And so you’ll see probably a little bit more of a traditional running game than what they used in the past where you saw Drew Brees and that short passing game kind of you know, substitute a little bit for run game in there. So I think some of that will happen in there. But yeah, I think he’s easily going to be a probably I’m still working through my rankings right now. He’s in QB RM sorry, running back number three, but that could change. I’ve only got about half of those guys started out right now and still working through the redo on that one. But Alex, I’m thinking that you’re thinking that he should be a keeper this year.
Alex 09:37
No comment. I’m not in a keeper league keeper league at the moment. So I
Kevin 09:46
just need a draft.
Derek 09:51
So for everybody just tuning in. On the very first episode of this show, Alex talked about how he didn’t keep Alvin Camaro For for our home League, which is the keeper league. And, you know two years later it ended up working out okay for you because you won the ship on that one. But yeah, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened on that one. But
Alex 10:12
if he if I keep him that I don’t get Derrick Henry and I don’t get Derrick Henry during his awesome run that we had last year and ride him to a fantasy football championship so everything works out okay.
Kevin 10:25
No, but you get Alvin Kamara and his six Teddy’s
10:30
in the championship game
Alex 10:31
like and that was pretty impressive that
Kevin 10:34
again, that was no right that game. Just the singular performance that Alvin Kamara put on in that game is is something to behold. And I don’t know if we’re ever going to see anything quite like that. Again, it was just very cool to see. I don’t expect that to happen. And the offense is going to function slightly differently, which is why I’m thinking there’s gonna be some touchdown regression there but the cut Alvin Kamara is coming into his fifth season guys, and he still has a ton of tread on his tires, like, through six seasons. He only has 672 career rush attempts. there cuz that in two and a half seasons. Yeah. So yeah, three, four seasons. He has that. Sorry. And so one thing else he also has is a nose for the head zone. Because through that he also has 43 touchdowns, like, so. That puts you right there almost 11 right. So the average is 11 touchdowns. You know, if we can get above 200 carries hit that 1000 yard mark, you know, even if he’s slightly down on receptions, right, like sprinkle in, you know, somewhere in that 70 to 75 neighborhood. Derek, I think you might have him for a little bit more than that. And we’ll see where that shakes out. But I think it’s all within the realm of possibility here. Like if you’re in any type of a path point or full point, PPR like that is still gold, like 10 touchdowns, 70 receptions out of your running back, not to mention 200 carries. And you know the goal, right, what we’re all hoping is 1000 plus yards for the first time in his career like he can have an extremely good season and quite frankly, be very quiet about it. Because the focus on that team is going to be at the quarterback position. And what they’re doing this year Alvin Kamara is going to get through the first half of the season without most people even remembering. I shouldn’t say remembering who he is, but almost him being a side story for the New Orleans Saints. He’s not going to be up front and center on that team.
Alex 12:40
Alright, well, I will. I will caveat you know, his number one ranking last year because we have to remember right? Again, you can only you know, can only go up against who you play type deal here but Christian McCaffrey and say Quan Barkley both missed practically all of last season. So I’m just you know, he was running back one, but you know, and he had a six touchdown game, which really really helps that ranking. And he had Drew Brees on the field with him almost at all times. So
Derek 13:16
like the five games that he missed the sixth game did he miss, you know, a third of the season?
Alex 13:21
Right, but two thirds Drew Brees is still hell it’s still better than what the frickin Broncos are gonna roll out there. So but but that is something that you got to keep in mind now. So I will go with this as well. You guys are picking at at number three if you’re picking it number three. Okay, and your your move is to go running back early. Do you go we all assume that that? Well, for this exercise we’ll assume that CMC and Dalvin Cook are both gone. Who do you take there at three
Kevin 14:00
for me it’s a toss up between Derrick Henry and Zeke and and Derrick Henry because the usage the volume that comes with it Zeke because I want a piece the cowboys and I’m not guaranteed that I’m going to get Zach or Dak especially in like a super flex it’s not necessarily gonna come back to me. I could get a receiver but I I do have a love affair with Zeke Elliott. But I think now that team’s back together. We we talked about this when we covered the Cowboys like I expect him to finish inside the top five, and kind of get back to that normal self. The offensive line is gonna be healthy. Again. I think the defense is improved. They may not be significantly better, but they are improved. But being able to utilize all those weapons means there’s not going to be a stacked box all the time. Zeke in his own right. He got targeted. I think he got targeted 65 times out of the backfield last season. So, for me at number three is Derrick Henry or Zeke. I’m probably We’re gonna lien Zeke because he also gets me the receptions. But I wouldn’t argue it anyway.
Derek 15:09
Yeah, I’m probably kind of in that same boat. I’m probably leaning the Derrick Henry route just because I think he’ll have again over 350 opportunities when it’s all said and done which is probably pretty close to what you’ll see with Alvin Kamara. You know, when you conclude both his passing targets and rushing attempts, I think there’ll be similar when it’s all said and done this season, but I’m gonna take Derrick Henry, who just, that’s the identity of that team is just to pound the ball and run probably in a three spot, but it’s a close one for me on that one, for sure. Some, alright, let’s go ahead.
Kevin 15:46
Alex is making is making notes so that I would also go address
Alex 15:51
that’s what I have. I have dairy Derrick Henry ranked third. I was just seeing how how highly you guys actually did see, Alec Kamera. I know you said five. Kevin, I know that you were there five, but just just to see if you would, quote unquote.
Kevin 16:08
I don’t know that you can go wrong there at that time, right. Like the consensus one and two is pretty much McCaffrey and Cooke, right. That’s Yeah, across the industry. But once you get three through seven, really like you have zeek you have Derrick Henry, you have Alvin Kamara and you have Jonathan Taylor like
Derek 16:27
and say, forget about Nick Chubb.
Kevin 16:32
Yeah, okay. I liked Nick Chubb a lot, but he shares a little bit too much time with Kareem Hunt anyway. Once you get into those, it’s kind of a dealer’s choice, right? It’s whatever you feel comfortable with drafting. So you can go to a bunch of different sites, the mainstream sites, you know, the the pod sites like what we have, and all the, you know, access of information. And we might all have them ranked slightly differently, but they’re all kind of in that core group. And, and really, as a drafter. On draft day, what you should take from that is, it’s dealer’s choice, take the guy you’re most comfortable with, if you if you’re just a fan of one of these guys. There’s no problem taking that you’re not necessarily not being a fanboy and reaching for a guy like all these guys could finish as high as they could finish as high as one or they could finish as low as eight realistically, all that still first round talent Look, I mean, look at any sort of mock draft, and 10, or 11, out of the 12 first round picks are running backs. So it’s still first round talent, you’re getting first round production. Now these guys so go with your gut, go with what you like and let the season play out how well but there’s not a I don’t feel like there’s a drastically wrong choice. As far as drafting one of those running backs in the first round. It’s just a comfort thing, what do you feel comfortable with?
Derek 17:59
Right, and what you’re talking about to a lot of that has to do with how you have your tears broken out there as well. And that’s something that we we typically draft within is kind of our tears and how we have that set up. And we’ll get into a lot of those tier based rankings, as they see as the offseason unfolds here. And we’ll have that you know, wide receiver running back tight end and quarterback ranking shows coming up with those chemicals for weeks leading up to the start of the season there. So make sure you guys are tuning in for that one. always a lot of fun to see how we kind of see these guys and where those tear breaks are. But that’s a lot of what you’re talking about. There’s just if your guys in the same tier, take the guy that you’re most comfortable with and and move along and set your draft board up accordingly with that. So guys, let’s go ahead and head on over to Latavius Murray, who is finishes running back 33 last year 146 rush attempts, 656 yards, four rushing touchdowns, had a little bit of work through the air with 23 receptions. 26 targets 176 yards and one touchdown through the air guys your thoughts on Latavius Murray
Kevin 19:06
lap Murray is a guy that I probably haven’t targeted enough late in drafts. He’s been falling down draft boards i think is ADP somewhere around 45. So getting that type of production again Sean Payton still the head coach and the offensive mastermind behind the New Orleans Saints. So you’re going to have a different face under center but some of these philosophies are going to stay the same regardless of who’s there. And so let’s save this Murray’s a nice piece to have because he’s a standalone backup, right you can put him he can be a bench player on your team but you can throw him in on a flex for whether it’s a matchup or whether you have guys on by or if Kumar gets nicked up right and that happens from time to time. It’s a long season. But But Tavi is. Marie does have standalone value to be able to carry that workload on his own. We’ve seen that through the course of his time with the saints. Um, if Kamara does go down, so he’s the guy that I like. I do like him because I feel like I can get value off of him where he’s going off of draft boards. I know, there’s been a couple times where I think I’ve waited just around too long. I haven’t talked myself into it enough and thinking that I’m going to sneak him back to me. And I keep getting picked off. So I need to adjust my thought process on that. But he’s a guy that you you can have comfort with. He’s a safe floor. They’re going to use them every week. So you do get consistent production out of them. And then, you know, on the weeks where if you have to plan, you’re just hoping for a touchdown, right? Like that’s what you need to set him up to continue to get him into that consistent mid to upper end of RB three low and RB two status is you need the touchdown to go into production. But he’s a guy who complements tomorrow well, and the saints do a good job of using his skill set within the offense to make sure he’s a production productive piece for them.
Alex 21:04
I mean, it wasn’t too long ago that he was like the dude. Even in Minnesota, he was one of the guys that I think it was after Dalvin Cook got hurt he had to become the focal part of that that teams offense that teams running game. So he while he’s not the young pup that he wants was still not that. Not that old. But yeah, I’m with you, Kevin. He does have standalone value, but he really I mean, I think if you do have Kamara he’s a guy that you should want to target. But but hope that he doesn’t pass you by? Because that is a decent fill in if Kamara goes down. I think it’s crazy though, that he had four touchdowns on the ground and one through the air is what you said Derek, right. Yep. And Kamara had six in one game. So the five touchdowns that he scored all of last season did not equal one of tomorrow’s amazing unbelievable football games against my view. The Vikings was was who that game was that eliminated them from the playoffs last year. I think if he can find the end zone a little bit more than I would be a little bit more comfortable with his standalone value but to me I view him more as as a handcuff than a guy that I am really targeting as standalone value.
Derek 22:42
So thanks, pics, chime in in there saying that he had a couple of six get our six game touchdowns happen. Like that comment. pings pics actually had a pretty good question that he threw out there on sports Me and Latavius Murray kind of highlights this one. So that’s where I kind of pivot here a little bit. But so the question was, is, you know, do you shy away from some of these guys in the mid round running back show kind of that dreaded fourth fifth round type of deal? Um, you know, Latavius Murray could be a reason to kind of shift away from that a little bit because of the fact that when you look at what you’re gonna get in the fifth round, like, you know, you’re talking guys like Myles Gaskin, you’re talking guys like Mike Davis, Leonard Fournette, kind of those names of the guys fall in and kind of that fifth round in that area there. And the question that I the way it comes back to my mind is is that Latavius Murray is not going to score that many less fantasy points than any of those guys that I just mentioned there. You’re probably talking a couple of couple of points a week type of thing but what you can get in the fourth fifth round from a wide receiver standpoint is drastically going to outperform that and you know, if you’re talking single QB leagues at that point you’re you could take a shot on a guy like a Kyler Adak yes even Josh Allen has kind of fallen into that fourth round in some of those as well so those are all guys that you could take your shot on there as well but Latavius Murray kind of you know making me make me think back to that that battle that I hopped in and that was a great one the pink picks throughout there on the sports me shout out to him
Kevin 24:22
Yeah, I’d agree with that. I think this year more so than years past it feels like you have to hit running back. You either have to hit it early or you have to really wait and be patient and then get the top and wide receivers if you’re going you know the true art you know zero RB strategy right whether you go tied in first round or whether you grab a Hopkins or Davante Adams Tyree kill you know those guys that are at the top of the wide receiver ADP at the moment and then kind of fall down but and then yeah, you’re you’re resting on guys that you think you can pick up late picking up maybe a Kareem Hunt And the six that Latavius Murray in in the ninth or 10th and being able to kind of fill that in you know fournette seems to be the you know the the hot name and Tampa Bay well I’m waiting an extra round Round and a half two rounds depending on what room you’re in and I’ll take rojo I don’t need so there’s there’s nothing wrong with that strategy it’s it’s it’s not one that I enjoy implementing. But I have done it from time to time. But yes, as far as the you know, the early mid rounds if you will. I wouldn’t get forced into it. I miles Gaskin has some lower because it seems like the dolphins are really really okay with riding a true number one back and they don’t do that weird 5545 split where you’re kind of having to figure things out kind of like San Francisco right like Trey Sermon when Goldman Ray moster like is it going to be jumbled in between all those guys are kind of well Goldman’s not moster and sermon are though, why why take the chance of starting the wrong guy who may not have standalone value on any given week? wait a couple rounds pick up a guy like Latavius Murray, Kareem Hunt these are backups that aren’t real backups they have workhorse ability they’re just playing in a to back system where their floors higher than everybody else around them.
Derek 26:28
Yeah, yeah, so it’s it’s definitely it’s I got to give it to everybody that does a zero RB because it’s not for the faint of heart I I don’t enjoy that that draft strategy there at all. In fact, you too have played in enough leagues to either know that if it’s a single QB league I’m draft and running back in the first three rounds and if it’s super flex I’m taking one quarterback in the first round the other two are running backs typically always so definitely, definitely some good good call outs and a good topic there that the pigs pick put on the sports me up. If you guys haven’t downloaded that download the sports me app pop over there join the battle, well worth the time and energy and it’s a lot of fun. So, guys, let’s go ahead and head on over into the wide receiver room. And they got a good one over there. Michael Thomas, who had a bit of a down year one could say off of the injury right here. He had that ankle injury very early on in the season two it never quite really returned to form kind of struggled to come back to play that last season with Drew Brees, but he had 40 receptions on 55 targets 100 or 438 yards, zero touchdown guys, your thoughts on Michael Thomas.
Kevin 27:47
Now that he’s not dealing with the high ankle sprain that kind of kept him in check last year, if you will, and missing a few games, I expect him to return to form guys. Like I expect Michael Thomas to be back inside the top 10 for wide receivers. Derek, I know that you have him read it even higher than just that. But I feel comfortable with that. We’ve seen that. We’ve seen that. And I’m tipping my hand here for later in the show. I apologize. But I believe that Jameis Winston can easily fulfill the Michael Thomas quota. He did it for a number of years with Mike Evans. It’s not going to be a problem for him to do the same thing with Michael Thomas outside of Alvin Kamara, there’s not really any sort of past catching threat in new in New Orleans. So he is an easy guy to lock on to. He runs crisp routes. He has great hands. So all these things were, you know, yeah, James can get a little wild at times, Michael Thomas. And his just raw ability to catch the ball, his wingspan and his ability to just come down with damn near everything. keeps him up there. So I like him a lot. He’s falling down draft boards. There’s a lot of people who got pissed off. There you go. There’s a lot of people who were pissed off about the fact that they drafted him in the first round and he finished it wide receiver 98. So it’s kind of that scorned lover type deal. Go ahead and pass on a man. He’s a perfect candidate for picking up a wide receiver at the beginning of the third round, middle of the third round to kind of depending on what you’re doing. And you can be okay with that guys. Like I’ll start a wide receiver core with Michael Thomas behind two running backs in the first two rounds. Like I feel like that’s just set up for success. He is definitely a guy that I have big stars next to I am finding out where he’s out on the draft board. And I’m keeping a very close eye on him because I think he’s going to be outperforming his value immensely in 2021.
Alex 29:50
Yeah, if he comes if we get to that, as pigs pigs there says 140 targets mark which is essentially what he’s had. What do you had the the 2018 and 2017 years where he got the 149 and 147 flip flop that 149 and 17 147 and 18. He still had over 100 catches, which is a pretty remarkable catch rate, nevertheless. So I’d still say if he’s, if he’s at 140 targets, he’s gonna be over 1000 yards. And that’s obviously he’s been over 1000 yards every year except for last year with with the ankle sprain. So, yeah, if you’re one of those spurned lovers, which, if, if, if there’s anyone who knows about being a spurned lover, it is, it is myself, then then go ahead and pass on it, but it will be to your own detriment that you do that because him healthy, even with which I think we all kind of hope it will be for especially people who are picking up Michael Thomas hope that it will be Jameis Winston, that’s throwing the football down there, then you’re going to see you’re going to be able to see his production get back to his form. Now, I don’t think that he goes for, you know, 1400 yards like he did in 2018. I definitely don’t think he goes for 1725, like he did in 2019. But even still, with with 100 catches and say 12 or 1300 yards, and if he can get in the end zone seven or eight times. You’re gonna be okay, especially with where he’s being drafted.
Derek 31:42
Yeah, yeah, you are absolutely correct there. And I’m gonna just kind of call my shot on this one, he returns the form wide receiver one this year, wide receiver number one overall. So when you look at it, he is being drafted as a wide receiver nine right now Kevin hit the mark kind of right on the head, where’s as far as ADP goes for round wise, is 29.3 overall, which would put him a third round, probably the 305, somewhere right in that range 305 to 306, right in there. And if you can, if you can get a guy in that range, that will be the you know, will finish in the number one wide receiver territory, you’re going to be great. And hey, if you can get a wide receiver in that range, it’s going to finish in the top three, you’re still in great shape there. And I think that all of those are very real possibilities, even if Taysom Hill is the starting quarterback there. Because with Taysom Hill under center last year, right? Like you look at some of the narrative straight out there where Taysom Hill didn’t necessarily like to throw the ball to to Michael Thomas, when you look at it, he he averaged about 8.8 point eight targets per game with Taysom Hill under center there. So almost nine targets a game. extrapolating that over 17, that puts it well above that 150 pays to it. But I think jamis will be the starting quarterback there. So even better. So you know, we’re kind of gonna shoot all of our shots here when it comes to the starting quarterback down there. But my my scout fishball team really hopes that jamis is the starting quarterback as well. So definitely rockin that one out there. But hoping that being the case, I think Michael Thomas will return to form here. Definitely. And it’s interesting that you put it at 1400 yards there, Alex, because of the way that I had that standard out there. So that’s the that’s the line here over under 1400 yards. What do you got from Michael Thomas this
Alex 33:42
year? I’m under.
Kevin 33:48
I think I’m gonna fall under but but barely, like, I don’t think it’s gonna be too far off. And I think that’s just going to be the efficiency of the offense. I do think they’re gonna stutter a little bit. And I think that might slow some of that. But it’s, I mean, 1386 I mean, really, something crazy like that, where it’s gonna be damn close.
Derek 34:12
I had when I started that out, it was 1401 1401 yards for him. So I’ve got to take the over just barely, based on how I’m projecting that one out there. But I was just very interesting that you set the line right there at 1400. Alex,
Alex 34:29
I’m under simply because if Jameis Winston is indeed the one who is under center. You have to understand that 20 to 25 of his passes intended for Michael Thomas will end up in the hands of the other team. That’s going to happen.
Kevin 34:46
I don’t know because that’s the case with Sean. Yeah, that’s the case with Peyton right. He’s not throwing the deep balls that he was throwing the Mike Evans. So I’m, I’m not gonna subscribe to that necessarily, but the one One thing that I find cool about where these guys are going is, this is one of the few natural stacks that you can gather in a draft. It’s hard to stack the Chiefs offense. It’s, it’s it is difficult to stack the Cowboys offense because they’re going at opposite ends of different of the rounds. Right. So if you get Zeke, typically it’s not falling back to you where you can get CD or Amari, because they’re going so damn close. But we’re Mike Evans, excuse me. That was a couple years ago with Seamus, where Michael Thomas is going at the 305. Well held the 105. That’s Kumara central right there. You can pick. You can stick Hartman, Franklin Robinson. Oh, that’s
Derek 35:48
Yeah, you sure could I don’t know that you’d want to but thanks picture,
Alex 35:53
right. You could that sounds like oh, it’s worse injury law firm, right. They’re here at Hardman, Pringle and Robinson, we fight for your rights. Sorry, good.
Kevin 36:03
No, but you know, at the 105, that’s prime Kumar territory, based off ATP based off of where we have him ranked all that type of thing. And then flip them back around at the top of the third like, you’re salivating at this, like I have zero qualms about starting a team with camara. Player x and Michael Thomas, like whatever that kind of falls back to ends, it could be at Austin eckler, you know, something like that. And going through and then you have to pass catching running backs, and the ultimate pass catching wide receiver. So I like it. I like it a lot. I genuinely don’t love picking at that five to eight spot. Starting a draft this year seems to be flowing a bit different like I can I can feel really really good about the team I draft picking 567 or eight. Were most years I dread it. I just don’t love it that much. This year, not so much. First six rounds. chalk it up like I will, I will absolutely take those to the bank all year long.
Derek 37:09
Yeah. Yeah, it’s actually interesting because you know, you’re talking stacks with the saints players and all that. That was one of the questions I posted over there on the sports me you know, kind of leading up today is your Give me your spicy take on the on the saints. And it was amazing how many folks are just kind of out on New Orleans this year because of the quarterback situation. And for the most part it you know, the general take was it didn’t matter who was starting, whether it was jamis or taysom. And that is something that I will tell you don’t i don’t subscribe to that at all. These guys will be valuable for fantasy, they will be relevant for fantasy. And if you’re passing on some of these guys, just because you’re you’re thinking that you’re that quarterback situation isn’t going to necessarily great, you are going to be missing out and you’re going to be giving some of the league mates in your league some advantages there. So there are lots of lots of really good options here and we’re gonna keep going through some of them. Trey Kwan Smith is a guy that, you know, I think this is, you know, is this the year that he finally breaks out? You know, that was kind of the thing last year everybody was thinking maybe this is the year that he breaks out and didn’t really happen. But now kind of happening to fill in for that wide receiver to spot over there. We’ll see what happens 34 receptions last year 50 targets 448 yards and four touchdowns. Guys your thoughts on Trey Kwan Smith?
Kevin 38:35
I I wanted to before you go.
Alex 38:39
Yeah, before you go, the reason that these you’re going to get you we are about to go through reasons one, and one a of why, why it’s going to be a little bit of a struggle for the saints offense and Michael Thomas this year, because we’re talking about the two guys that will be on the opposite side of the field for it. Now I understand that Alvin Kamara is his past catching running back and that he will be a threat and that defenses are going to have to honor wherever 41 is on the field. And that’s going to take some attention away from Michael Thomas. But we are about to go over reasons one and one a why it is going to be a struggle because they don’t have again the smartest player on the field when he’s on the field on the field anymore in Drew Brees
Kevin 39:30
Yes. Trick one kept getting chance after chance Drew Brees really liked him. And I think that’s part of why Sean Payton has kind of continued to buy into him is Yeah, they were they were cash strapped right. That’s why they had to let Manny Sanders go and now he’s in Buffalo and excuse me, they had some other needs. That’s probably why they didn’t draft a guy early. I don’t love him. I really Don’t like I jumped on that bandwagon last year thinking that okay, this was gonna be it like he had to develop through his rookie season. And now he’s familiar with Payton’s offense and Drew Brees is going to be there. And then Michael Thomas went down thinking okay, like this is it like this guy’s gonna step up. And he’s at least gonna be fantasy relevant not necessarily wide receiver one territory but at least be fantasy relevant. And boy oh boy was I wrong like this is this isn’t the guy that I’m looking at like I’d rather take my chance on some young and not that he’s in his third year so it’s not that he’s not young but some rookie that you don’t know as much about I’d rather wait and take one of the Colts receivers that are going late right now in any of the three. I’d take any one of them. I’d take Denzel Mims over him. You know, it’s just Tim Patrick. I think I would take 10 Patrick over Trey Kwan Smith like, and it’s not a huge knock on Trey Kwan, necessarily. But at the same time, how many chances Do you need to get you have one of the best quarterbacks ever throwing you the ball, giving you all the tutelage in the world that you could ever asked for and film study. And on the practice field, we have Michael Thomas leading the way in the weight room and how to do things as a perennial, all pro wide receiver and you can’t get your head out of your ass to be able to catch 60 balls. Like, I’m just not buying into it. I’m not a fan of them. I don’t want any part of them. I will look a lot of other places before I settle on Trey Kwan Smith and feel don’t feel good going. Yep, yep, he’s the number. He’s the number two receiver on Team x that that I want to get, like, pass there’s there’s at least 18 other teams right now. without even really thinking about that I’d rather have their number two wide receiver instead of Trey Kwan Smith.
Alex 41:57
Yeah, I think with the with the depth of talent at wide receiver and just league wide really, that if you can’t be a proven commodity, then you’d rather go with the unproven commodity in a rookie or you know, a guy who’s coming off of a rookie year. More so than an A tre Quan Smith, because Kevin to your point it, it’s just, it’s not there. And, you know, for whatever reason, it’s not there. And for that, you know, you’re better off just looking in a different direction.
Derek 42:43
See how all offering a little different viewpoint on this one? I do think that Trey Kwan Smith does have some some fantasy relevance and some fantasy value on on that one this year. Looking at it, I’ve got him. Yeah, he’s going to see a fair amount of targets down there because you’re quite frankly, New Orleans is going to throw the ball. Oh, what they’re probably going to throw the ball close to 600 times with that extra game on it this year. Even with us projecting them having a little bit more running game and and that kind of stuff. They’re still going to throw the ball between 550 and 600 attempts on that one. You can only throw the ball so many times to Michael Thomas, you can only throw the ball so many times to Alvin Kamara which then leads into who is that second pass catching or third pass catching option on that one. And it comes down to either you know, being Adam Troutman or Trey Kwan Smith on that one and both of those guys, I think you’re gonna see well over 100 targets on this one. And so the fact that he’s going to see over 100 targets on that because they’ve got to throw the ball to somebody down there, he’s going to have a fantasy relevant season on this one, and where he’s being drafted at he could be a value for you because he’s going in round, almost round 23 there’s you know, very few drafts out there that go that deep are homely is one of those types of drafts that will go into 2223 type of rounds, but for the most part, he’s going as undrafted. So if you’re getting into that last pick on on that thing, he could be worth a dark throw on that one. Because even if and part of the reason I say that is even if you’re taking him with that last pick in your draft, a he probably is going to have some fantasy relevance, but be you know what that role is going to look like and week one week two type of thing and if it’s not there, he’s a he’s cuttable. And you’re able to pick up somebody else on the waiver wire and move on on that point as well. Kevin, you look like you got a thought for me.
Kevin 44:42
Now, I there’s nothing wrong with subscribing to a dart throw it the last pick up a draft. That’s a really good reason. Fair enough.
Derek 44:53
All righty. Well, let’s go ahead and move on over to the tight end. And Adam Troutman last year. Um Yeah, he’s playing behind Jared Cook he was the backup roll 15 receptions on 16 targets 171 yards and one touchdown, guys your thoughts on Adam Troutman?
Kevin 45:10
Adam Troutman is one of those sneaky tight ends, right, everybody’s starting to kind of fall in love with they’re starting to see starting to think about him kind of late. If you’re waiting on tight ends, he’s also a titan that’s starting to creep up the draft boards. And I think by the time the middle of August hits when draft season gets really hot and heavy, we’re gonna see him going a lot higher than what he’s currently going. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go off the board at like Titan 13 when it’s all said and done with and kind of get in the mix with kind of some of the, the mix of slop ease that no one really wants, right. Evan Ingram the answer and Anthony first skor Adam Troutman of Hell, even Evan Ingram, because people are really down on him this year, too. But they, like you said, Derek, they got to throw the ball to someone, Jared Cook left, he’s in LA with the Chargers right now. So there’s got to be targets to go around. They brought in Nick finit, who is a pass blocking tight end, he is not a pass catching tight end. So that doesn’t worry me at all. And someone has to emerge. And Troutman has the ability to kind of play off the line and still be productive. I say this only because it’s a saints reference. But he’s kind of like a poor man, Jimmy Graham, he’s not as athletic. But he can line up off the line in the slot and do a couple different things like Jimmy Graham did for him. So I like him late, especially if I’m waiting on tight in too tight in league. I like him because I can take one kind of early and then wait a while fill up my skill positions, then come back to him later on. So I like him for a lot of different reasons, in that perspective, but I’m probably not going to try them out as my starting tight in week one, I’m probably going to find something I’m a little bit more comfortable with as a floor. And I’m going to make Sean Payton and the quarterback for the saints show me how he’s going to be utilized in this offense before I roll them out every week and say, Okay, this is a guy I can lean on for a couple weeks.
Alex 47:25
Yeah, there’s too many there’s just too many question marks surrounding usage. I like his his efficiency 15 on 16. That’s not bad. If he could keep that number up, then increase those two numbers, that would be nice. We all know that it’s not gonna happen. But I think I think it’s just with tight end and you guys know, my my thoughts on tight end, you know, I fall in love with a guy and then I’m gonna get him wherever I want to get him at probably two or three rounds too early. But that’s that’s my philosophy on tight ends. And so for Adam Trotman, I just don’t know that he’s a guy that I would be targeting. But to all of your, to your point there, Kevin, that, you know, this is this is one of those trendy names and it’s, it’s trending in a direction that is probably gonna force me to, to have to not even consider him. So I, I like your philosophy on it, Kevin, in that, he’s got to prove it. He’s got it. You’ve got to figure out what they’re doing with the offense down there who’s throwing the football and how, how much he’s going to be utilized. But right out of the gate, probably not a guy that I’m, I’m looking too too hard at.
Derek 48:50
See, Adam Troutman for me is is the guy that I saw being my john smith from last year, this year, right? The guy that you were able to pick up very late in the draft and had that sneaky upside to to come in and put up some very good weekly performances for you and didn’t just kind of string the position as you were going through. But Kevin, I think you’re right, I think by the time that we actually get fully into redraft season, he’s going to creep up to the boards the point where it’s not going to be a desirable pick anymore, because you’re going to probably have to start spending your 10th round capital on that and where I like drafting Titan is going to be in that 13th 12th 13th 14th round more like more in that range. And forever. That’s where his his draft capital has been where he was the 29th tight end off the board. You know, 225 was his average draft position. So in that guy that was going almost on draftable and most drafts, I don’t know that that’ll be continued to be the case. Because I think you’re right, I think he’ll sneak up there in about that. 10th round when it’s all said and done. But if you can get him 12/13 round absolutely worth the dark throw on that one because I think you will you’ll be pleasantly surprised on what you can get out of out on treatment this year.
Kevin 50:03
Yeah, so according to fancy football calculator, his, his overall draft rank is all the way up to 156 now, which puts him at basically the 1312 spots. So him, him, Irv Smith jonnu Jonnu Smith and Gerald Everett are all kind of going around that same range. So I do expect that to climb up I expect him to be going above you know, like you said they’re probably not 11th or 12th or 11th or even 10th round right see him go up where? Above Tyler Higbee maybe by up by gronk at the end of the 10th round maybe slide above Evan Ingram or Robert Tonyan kind of in the area and the appeal is is there but I just can’t subscribe to wasting I shouldn’t say wasting to spending that high of a capital on a guy where I’m just gonna end up streaming that position for the most part anyway right if you don’t have one of the top five or five guys four guys, you should be streaming the position because it’s a week to week proposition right? You never know when Logan Thomas or Robert Tonyan are going to come along that you can pick off the waiver wire and ride them to a top five tight end finish. So right could Trotman be that guy ABS a freakin lewdly there’s nothing saying that he can’t. But you’re going to be streaming it to find it. So don’t don’t, I wouldn’t spend maybe I’m gonna phrase it that way. I wouldn’t spend a 10th or 11th round pick on a guy that I’m going to drop to pick up the next best thing four weeks into the season. Like I still want my 10th round pick to be something that I can fundamentally use on my roster. And whether it’s for by weeks, whether it’s for proper depth, maybe it’s a you know, kind of an early stage of a handcuff depending on how that looks like there’s a lot of different things that could go there that doesn’t scream streamer tied in and the 10th round
Derek 52:09
right and clock management chime in in that he got him in a draft super late recently. Very good for you you know love the guys talk management had him on the show before they do some great things check them out. Um Yeah, no i i said it’s that’s a guy that was really hoping to be able to just get late and streaming and play that round but Oh, if some butts and candies and nuts we don’t have a merry Christmas right? So let’s go ahead and we’ll see
Alex 52:39
how that saying goes.
Kevin 52:41
Yeah, it is how it goes but just shows how old Derek is because no one says it anymore. Yeah.
Derek 52:48
Well, I just want to point out that both of you are also old because you knew exactly the the phrasing with it and the same
Alex 52:55
I had to double check I knew about the fretboard I didn’t know about that then we’d all have a merry Christmas
Derek 53:00
likely story likely story. So Alright guys, let’s go ahead and move on over to the quarterback room and according the saints there’s a QB battle that’s going to be taking place camp battle going on here. I don’t know that I subscribe to that the guy on the screen is who I’m gonna say is the starting quarterback when the season rolls out. That’s how I started and projected. But last year, he was a backup played a very backup role. The stats are me just kind of throw them out the window because you had 11 attempts, right? He had about as many attempts last year is you know Taysom Hill had going into last year over Taysom Hill his entire career. So what are your thoughts on jameis? Winston?
Kevin 53:41
I still like James James is like the younger version of Ryan Fitzpatrick like He always makes fantasy football interesting. And sometimes it’s for the good right and you’re writing high because he throws for 350 yards and four or five
54:00
oh
Derek 54:04
we made it through like an entire hour before before we lost Kevin this time around.
Alex 54:09
I was touching go there for a second a few times. I thought but
Derek 54:12
yeah, I thought I thought we I thought we were gonna make it. I thought we were too I was holding my breath. You know try not to create any disturbances on the on the old wi fi’s here but we’ve got him back.
Kevin 54:25
I got so close.
Alex 54:28
You cut out you cut out saying that he was gonna throw for 350 and foot and then you were gone.
Kevin 54:33
Oh, well the fuck kind of drop did four or five touchdowns and on other weeks, right, he’s gonna throw for maybe zero, maybe one touchdown 176 yards and three picks and you’re gonna be scratching your head going well, crap. You just cost me my week. So he makes it interesting. He is he’s the best quarterback. The saints have like I know Sean Payton likes his little gimmicky Taysom Hill and throwing them in in the redzone. And mixing him in is one thing but we guys we saw Taysom Hill last year right and Jameis Winston didn’t get to play when Drew Brees was out, they decided to put Taysom Hill and we saw the inefficiencies of taysom. Hill. Go back to the Denver Broncos and New Orleans Saints football game last year. And tell me that Taysom Hill is a starting quarterback in this league. I mean tape needs to be burned. It does. It does the game tape tasting Taysom Hill barely outperformed a wide receiver playing quarterback. Like barely.
Alex 55:42
It was just a practice squad wide receiver playing quarterback. Yeah, so
Kevin 55:49
I think James is the guy I think he leads them to the to the highest ceiling, he does create a little bit more risk than taste him does. But in that division, you have to go against Tom Brady and the defending Super Bowl champions twice. The Falcons while their defense is soft, still has a high flying offense and the Falcons saints games are still must see TV, like those games are just really, really fun to watch. And Carolina is no slouch. Donald’s coming in, they’re receiving Corps is young and dynamic. Their defense is slightly improved getting Jace horn there in the first round to kind of bolster that secondary and compete with these big wider fever targets. So you have to put up points in the NFC South to when you absolutely have to. And you’re not going to be able to put up the points needed to get into the playoffs if Taysom Hill is your quarterback because in that division, you are not going to win game 17 to 10 you have to win games 28 to 24. You know 3528 that type of thing week in and week out. Otherwise, your third fourth on the depth chart and that division and you’re looking up at the playoffs instead of being able to say hey, we made it in now let’s see what happens and what the matchup brings us.
Alex 57:10
Okay, I think I’ll say this, I think that Jameis Winston gives the best value for fantasy for the other players on the team. I think that Jameis Winston is the the best quarterback for everybody else on the team. But I don’t know that Jameis Winston is the best quarterback on the team right now. And I say you say that because the two guys that we’re not going to talk about, have some intrigue. One of them is whatever. But the third quarterback that is on their depth chart right now is a little intriguing to me. So I think that I think that with with the way that the saints, however this plays out, however this shakes out whoever’s the week, one starter, I do think that they get a fair shake, and they get the chance to show what they’ve got. But I think that the leash is short. And I think the leash is short for all of them down there. So I know that Kevin, you’re much higher on Jameis Winston and both Derek and I because I just went and looked at our rankings you had you had jamis up at 16. Derek and I both had him at 25. So we’re both a little bit further down than you are and I could totally easily see Jameis Winston come in at qb 16. Like that. That’s not out of the realm of possibility. I’m more leaning towards the fact that I don’t know that he gets to play an entire season. Because I just I think the frustration level will be too high. Nobody wants to be the guy replacing the guy right ask asking. Jay Cutler ask Brian greasy. Nobody wants to be the guy who replaces the guy and it’s gonna be tough. It’s going to be a struggle down there.
Kevin 59:15
But what we don’t know is what James has learned in his season of humbling right. Sure. We sure we’re not quite sure because the way that the media portrayed it right and I say the media meaning whoever was televising the game, CBS, Fox, NBC, ESPN, whoever. They he always had his headset on. He was always talking to Drew Brees over at the sideline like he was always you know, in Sean Payton’s ear listening to the play calls and be like, it sure seemed like he was doing the right things right that that getting released from Tampa Bay was kind of that wake up call. And he’s been able to keep out of the news as far as kind of that boneheaded young Kids stuff that he had at Florida State and even kind of the first part when he was in Tampa. So that’s what I’m subscribing to right. Like, I’m gonna subscribe to the positive here because of what, you know what I was able to see. Now, I didn’t see the film study I didn’t see inside the locker room and how he acted with the staff and with the players. But what I did see was a guy that really at least seem to give a damn. And he already has more raw talent than anybody else in that room. So if he’s going to care, I’m going to take that as success for the saints, which leads to fantasy success for all of us.
Derek 1:00:43
Very true. And so when you look at it, too, right, like you’re talking about a guy that, you know, there’s, he obviously had that humbling moment when it came into getting released and going through that. But then you saw the guy come in right after you and their roster wasn’t that different from 2019 to 2020. As far as the Bucs were concerned, they made a big change at quarterback. But that defense was still very similar. You saw a lot of those offensive pieces be very similar to 2019. And they go out and win a Super Bowl on that one. So yeah, you talk about you talking about, you know, further humbling of a guy do nothing, nothing really does that more so than a guy coming in and winning with your team and taking them all the way to a Super Bowl on that one. You also look at the fact to that, you know, Jamison’s had a few things out there from a you know, the laser eye surgery, he’s saying that you can see better than he’s ever been able to see before and you saw some of that too, when they were going through some of that you didn’t see him doing the same thing where he’s squinting and trying to see what’s going on either in the playbook or you know, on the sideline, watching the film, or watching the game play out and that kind of stuff. So yeah, I think that a lot of things have transpired there and I think that you probably have seen you know, the young man mature a little bit and I think he’s ready to take this team and I think he’s probably more the fit for Sean Payton’s offense he’s got the big arm he’s got the the willingness to throw the ball down the field that I don’t know that we necessarily see out of Taysom Hill so while I might have been a little bit down on on him, it was just a matter of as far as how this how the standing out of everything worked, but I think he will be week one starter and I think that you’ll see him hold the job the entire year. With him bringing Taysom Hill in is kind of that Wildcat sprinkle and some of that goal line type of stuff just like they did with Drew Brees is that’s how I see Taysom Hill playing this thing out.
Alex 1:02:34
Interesting. That takes away the question I was gonna pose to the group which was number of starts for Jameis Winston and I was gonna put the number at probably way too low for either of you, but I’ll go I’ll go with a more probably appropriate 112 and a half
Derek 1:02:52
over. Yeah, over 16 is what I see there. They will be in the playoffs. They won’t have to worry about week 17 and so they’ll try a tasty meal out there.
Alex 1:03:06
Okay, that we can I put money on this.
Kevin 1:03:10
Over 12 and a half I’ll put money
Alex 1:03:11
No, no, no, no, that they’ll be in the playoffs and they’ll try Taysom Hill out week 18. Yeah.
Derek 1:03:19
Well, we can talk off here on that one. You probably need one out.
Kevin 1:03:24
I’ll start working on it and set odds.
Derek 1:03:28
So alrighty guys, any other thoughts on jamis? Alrighty, let’s go ahead and move on over to Taysom Hill and Taysom Hill came in for some relief work with the Drew Brees injury, 88 completions, 121 attempts, 928 yards, four touchdowns, two interceptions, put up 87 rushing attempts, 457 yards, eight touchdowns, your thoughts on Taysom Hill.
Kevin 1:03:57
He he did this over MMA starting five and a half games right. For the injured Drew Brees. I just don’t like him. He’s a nice, he’s a nice piece to it. Right, he can add a different layer to the offense. He keeps the defense honest with being able to put them all over the place on the field. He keeps the special teams honest if if Sean Payton keeps him on special teams running down and cracking some of that. So it’s not that this kid doesn’t have the want to this, this Taysom Hill has probably a greater desire to play football than the vast vast majority of current NFL players. So I when I’m saying this, it’s not taking away his want to or desire to play football. His raw natural ability is just not there. When you’re comparing him to players who play the same position. He’s not a tight end. He’s a quarterback now. He is not in the same realm of quarterback as 95% of the league. Like, yes, he takes off and runs, but every time he runs, what is that? What does that do? It gets, you know, five to seven yards. And sure he falls down, but at some point your quarterback is going to get hurt, right? We see this time and time again. Look at Dak Prescott. Right? So if you really want Taysom Hill to be your quarterback, do you want him continuing to take those chances time and time again? Are you going to let him get plowed over by 300 pound lineman in the red zone? Or are you going to make him step back and be a pocket passer to some extent not completely, but to some extent. And if that’s the case, I’m not trusting him again. Go back to the bronco game, he averaged less than 200 yards passing per start. Like that’s if that in Denver, we got more production than that we got more production out of drew Locke throwing the football than what the saints got out of Taysom Hill, like, I just will not subscribe to the fact that this guy is anything more than a layer to the offense. He’s not who the offense will run through.
Alex 1:06:17
So the reason why I had the over under at 12 and a half, which really I thought would I thought more realistic would be nine and a half starts for jameis. Winston, I know is for this reason. The reason that you kept bringing up all the time talking about all the rest of the players on the saints offense, and that is that Sean Payton is still there as the offensive mastermind. And Sean Payton has done everything in his power to put Taysom Hill in a position that he would be a starting quarterback in this league. I think that Sean Payton, this will be the demise of Sean Payton is Taysom Hill, because I think that he’s going to try to force this into being something that it It absolutely is not. So I see Taysom Hill getting probably much more run at quarterback than he then he should this this upcoming season. And that’s where I think that, you know, that’s where I kind of pumped the brakes on on Jameis Winston because I do think that Taysom Hill gets a much longer leash than a Jameis Winston would. And I also think that he and book or Trevor Simeon probably has a longer leash than a Jameis Winston would be in this offense. I just I just with Sean Payton still there and the love affair that he has with Taysom Hill. Because I think that’s what he you know, to your point, Kevin, the kid loves to play football. He is he is you know that that gadget player that I think these coaches they see and they see all of the possibilities of what the gadget player could be with with out realizing what the gadget player is. And so I think that they have the giant blind spot of what the gadget player is versus everything that the gadget player could be. And that blind spot is it’s it’s a demise to what they can accomplish. Right? It just does not work. We saw it with Tim Tebow. Right. And I’m not saying that Taysom Hill is Tim Tebow, but I’m kind of saying that Taysom Hill is Tim Tebow. It just does does not make any sense it is but it it just does not make any sense why Sean Payton continues to try to force Taysom Hill to be a quarterback in this league, because they want him on the field making plays. And the only person who touches the ball more than the quarterback is the center. You know that’s and he wants the ball in taysom Hills hands. I I would not be surprised if Taysom Hill is the starter week one. I would not be surprised he’s got a longer leash than many would expect him to have.
Derek 1:09:07
Okay, so here’s your kind of my thoughts on the Taysom Hill side of things. When you look at the games he started which were weeks 11 1213 and 14. As far as that goes, he played some of the worst defenses in the league. The best defense that he played was Philadelphia, who was ranked 16th against the quarterbacks and fantasy points given up so they were actually in the top. They were right at the halfway mark. Every other team was worse in the bottom half of points given up against quarterback. He played Atlanta twice who is second worst in the league last year 31 out of 32 teams against the quarterback in giving up points and which case he put up good points. But that was because he ran the ball a ton. didn’t necessarily throw the ball you know threw the ball but he was A short little dump off type of route to it barely got over 200 yards and both of those games and it just like you’re talking about Sean Payton and being this offensive mastermind and what he can do and all that. I don’t I don’t believe that that’s what Sean Payton wants to see week in and week out his these constant just 200 yard games out of his quarterback with 80 yards having come on the ground from his quarterback. He’s got other pieces around him to do that such as Alvin Kamara who can who is a great playmaker Latavius Murray, who’s a great playmaker as well and can pick up those rushing yards as well, as well as the fact that they’ve gotten probably one of the very best wide receivers in the league. I just don’t see it happening, where Taysom Hill is going to be able to run this offense the way that Sean Payton envisions it running, especially ever after it coming off of a guy like Drew Brees and not him not pushing the ball down the field and not pushing the ball really.
Alex 1:10:56
And that begs the question. Why was he the backup? Why was he the guy who started last year when drew was out? That he’s the questioner that you have to? You have to ask? Go ahead. jamis wasn’t her?
Kevin 1:11:12
No tastings, just safe, the saints had made their mark the end had their record set. They weren’t trying to win games, they were trying to keep the ship afloat. And that’s what tasting allows you to do. Right? He allows you to keep the ship afloat. He doesn’t make mistakes, because he’s completely risk adverse. He doesn’t like it. He’s gonna go scamper for three yards and live to fight another day. Like, in the middle of the season, when you already have when you’re sitting at nine into going into that game like Yeah, you can. You can coast into the playoffs and just don’t eff it up. But starting at zero and zero and looking at their schedule, guys, like they have to be able to start strong, like the back ends a little bit more favorable, but the start of their, their season is difficult, like they open the season at home against Green Bay. So they get that game at home. But I’m at this point, I’m assuming Aaron Rodgers is coming back to the Packers until I’m told he’s not so taysom Hills not beating Aaron Rodgers. I don’t care what happens in that game. It Taysom Hill is not going to do it. At least James can try and air it out and try and beat him. Yeah, he might end up with four picks because they’re late fourth quarter interceptions. But taysom is not gonna be able to throw them into that game. That’s Jameis Winston, you have to do that. Then you’re at Carolina, taste him could probably win that game. Like Okay, fine. So you’re sitting at one in one, then New England, you’re at New England. Bill Belichick is not going to stand for Taysom Hill walking in there and beating like,
Derek 1:12:45
that’s nothing can happen. He’s got the player on the other side. He’s got the perfect players his starting quarterback to practice against, you know, in in Cam Newton. Yeah.
Kevin 1:12:56
So the Giants I think that’s a 5050 toss that giants defense was very, very good. Last year. They were sneaky. Good. And they got better. So and then they’re at Washington, Washington posted a top three defense guys, then they’re at Seattle, then Tampa Bay. That’s the first seven games taysom you’re going to go to and five with Taysom Hill under center. If you trot him out to start the season. And you give him that long leash your two and five and there’s no chance that you make in the playoffs at that point. That’s just not going to happen in that FC.
Derek 1:13:29
Yeah, I’m I’m fully agreeing with that thought there as well. I just I just don’t see it happening there. And when you look at to the saints, the saints defense didn’t necessarily get better this year. They were they were an elite unit last year, but this year? Yeah. I think they’re going to take a step backwards as far as the defensive side of the ball goes. So you’re going to have to play a little bit more offensive side of the side of things that I think jamis does that for you far more than what taysom does. Any final thoughts on Taysom Hill and or the saints? Alrighty, well, guys, we’ve got we’ve been working on those rankings, like we’ve been talking about. And like we said, we’re gonna bring you the tight end rankings this week. And here they are. So started off we’ve got Kelsey kettle Waller, Andrews hawkinson. Pitts, Goddard and fant kind of the top eight. So guys, what are some of your thoughts here on this top eight ranking?
Kevin 1:14:36
I don’t feel like any of this is a big surprise. And not that it’s just the general industry consensus, but people have big expectations for Kyle Pitts. hawkinson is kind of the only show in town for Detroit. So I mean, you could argue him sliding up into that fourth spot just by sheer volume that he’s gonna see from Jared Goff. Dallas Goddard might be the one wildcard Right, like how much does Jay? Does Jalen hertz use Dallas Goddard, I know Carson Wentz leaned on their tight end with with Zach Ertz quite regularly, regularly. But I’m not sure if if Jalen hertz is going to do the same thing, or instead of dumping into the tight ends, so you can appeal out and run a little bit more, because that wasn’t necessarily Carson’s forte after the knee injury. So that’s the one wildcard right fance right there. That makes sense. A key piece of that Denver offense. So overall, the top eight I think it looks good. I can’t really argue with a guy taking any one of those guys in that position. But I don’t know man, I still like more bang for my buck later in the draft.
Derek 1:15:50
Right. And there was some This wasn’t necessarily unanimous when we went through this deal, you guys were both had cattle number two, I had kittel as my third with Waller scooting up there into that second spot for me. So a little bit of difference there. You know, one of the other ones that we were that we were a little bit different on I had fantasies, my 13 you guys both had him as up there at eight. Dallas Goddard was another one that we kind of were a little bit varied on with the ranks of nine, six and eight. So definitely some different kind of mixes up there and just kind of curious, you know, I guess Let me ask the question this way. So when I had wallart to simply based on target volume there, and you guys had kiddle at three, so sell me on kiddle being being ahead of Waller on this one.
Alex 1:16:44
kiddo, I think kiddle has the opportunity to not just you know, first off, it’s Jimmy G. Right? We’re under the assumption that it’s going to be Jimmy g throwing the football right so they take the safest option. I think that’s what Jimmy g wakes up in the morning and sees on his bedroom wall as he gets out of bed is take the safest option. That’s George kittel. And so that that’s where I think but I like Kindle also has the ability I think to rip off some big games and some some long catches that’ll get you extra bonus points versus wallers. I think while there’s a little they This is splitting hairs here but while there’s a little more touchdown dependent versus yard dependent, that Kittle can provide. That’s that’s the difference for me.
Kevin 1:17:41
While it goes big every time he plays against me, I’ll tell you that
Alex 1:17:45
he shared that I guess. Find out find out whenever Waller is going up whenever Kevin’s going up against Darren Waller and get that man in your starting lineup.
Derek 1:17:54
Yeah. play him in DFS because that’s a week winners
Alex 1:17:58
there. Yeah, not going to happen. No doubt.
Kevin 1:18:02
I think for me, it’s splitting hairs, right? It’s almost a dealer’s choice going all the way back to the beginning of the show, right when we were talking about running backs and, you know, the the draft position of well, where does Kamara go does he go three, four or five or six right somewhere in that neighborhood? I don’t know that there’s necessarily a right or a wrong answer. Waller. Walters a little bit older but he doesn’t have the injury history. They’re both the number one targets in those offenses. That’s the one thing. The one thing about the Raiders are there. I just I think I think the Raiders are going to try and spread the ball out a bit more like they wasted. Again, wasted spent first round draft capital on Henry rugs. They know what they have in hunter Renfro. They have now two running backs in that system between Kenyan Drake and Josh Jacobs. And Derek Carr is another guy who’s fairly risk adverse, like he doesn’t turn the ball over a whole lot. He’s not taking huge shots down the field, but I think he’s been working on that too. So I can see either way, I will tell you that the one downside with George kittel is in the last I think the last six or seven seasons, and I’ll have to go back and double check this but a no pass catcher for the San Francisco 40 Niners has finished with more than six touchdowns.
Derek 1:19:40
Right, like a kettle kettle as high as five on a season.
Kevin 1:19:44
Right? So that could be it but if he’s seeing 130 targets or more at the tight end position, I mean, that’s just hard to turn down. I don’t know that was gonna see quite that many, I think I think the Raiders are gonna try and spread it out a little bit more where Jimmy G will have no problem and focusing only on kittel if he has to.
Derek 1:20:10
Fair enough. Alrighty guys, well,
Alex 1:20:12
let’s go on before we get out of those top eight. I think the real wildcard in this one is Kyle Pitts. Like we all we all know that Kyle Pitts is like a dude, right? Like, we were all pretty, pretty sold on the fact that this kid was gonna be like, well, whoever took him like that was the right choice for that team, like, whoever whoever took him in the draft this year. That was the right choice was to get Kyle Pitts on your team. But here’s the thing, you know, he’s going to that Atlanta team and that that Atlanta team, it’s they they need some help. Right. They needed help in a lot of different areas. And I wasn’t sure that tight end was exactly one of them. But but with the departure of Julio, you know, that that does free up some targets for for Kyle Pitts, but it just exactly what the kids gonna be, I think is is going to be intriguing. And I think right now, like, you know, this could go, like, awesome for him where he could be, you know, flirting with Kelsey as like tied in one. Or it could just be a horrific experiment, and he could be way outside of the top, you know, outside it’s tied into territory. I feel a little more comfortable saying that he’s probably it’s probably closer to him flirting with tight end one than than the other end of that. But you want to talk about a wildcard i think i think Pitts is the wildcard in this one. And I think I think people might be overspending on him just because he is a rookie. But all that being said, like, I’d be all in on him too.
Derek 1:21:51
So let me ask y’all a question. Do you think that Kyle pits does better than 64 receptions? 115 targets for 722 yards and six touchdowns? Yes. Yes. Okay. The reason that those numbers were so specific is that is the actually the rookie record for the best season for a rookie tight end. And that was Evan Ingram’s numbers back in 2017, where he finishes the tight end number five on the season there. I think that Kyle Pitts will also do better than that as well. I think Julio leaving town definitely kind of, you know, cements that in my mind a little bit more so than if Julio was still there. But, um, you know, just kind of an interesting thought to think about that. The best, the best rookie tight end that we’ve ever seen from a season come through, I’ll finish it at nine with six touchdowns and about 722 yards. So very interesting to see how that one comes to play. And I think you know, from what, what that list looks like, you’re gonna see a lot of guys flirting with, you know, probably eight 900 yards ahead of him with those four or five guys there and so it will be very interesting to see how he finishes that I think Alex is pretty spot on there that it’s good to go. It’s either gonna be boom or bust. As far as expectations around him go. So let’s go ahead and hit up numbers. And it really it says 16 on there but the sheet just wouldn’t let me rank 1414 and 14 that’s why you see three guys down there because Logan Thomas gronk and Hunter Henry all finished 14 but number nine was Robert Tonyan number 10 was Irv Smith, Jr. Number 11. Evan Ingram. Number 12 Johnny Smith number 13 Micah sickie 14 was Logan Thomas a tie for 14 was gronk and a tie for 14 was Hunter Henry three way tie which doesn’t happen much when you’re talking to consensus rankings between the three of us so guys your thoughts on kind of this tied in to territory
Alex 1:23:55
um, I can see Irv Smith Jr. I know top 10 is still you know decent but I can see herb Smith Jr. creeping his way up in there with with Kyle Rudolph gone with the Kirk Cousins. Still, you know, you want to talk about a guy that wakes up every morning and says take take the safest option. And with what that team, you know, they’re going to try to be I think with what they’re going to try to get back to I think herb Smith. He has sneaky touchdown upside. Maybe not so much yardage wise because you do have Justin Jefferson and Adam Thielen still but Earth Smith Jr. is proven to be a pretty good threat inside the 20 particularly inside the tent. So I can see him sneaking up and and beat not being at 10am finishing higher than that. beyond that. I mean, it’s just the flipping a coin with tight ends outside of the top five or six
Kevin 1:25:03
Yeah, I I’m okay with this right. Like, I think the thing that’s holding tonyan back is his usage right, his target share was not that great. And Green Bay, he just did the most with what he could a lot of times No, yeah, I think Logan Thomas is going to kind of fall back down to reality, as far as probably where he should be ranked there and that, you know, top end of tied into territory. But realistically, I think, I think you could see this whole row nine through 16. Finish in any one of those spots. And it wouldn’t surprise anybody, right, like Tanya could finish a 16. And Irv Smith Jr. Could be, you know, 15 and get sick, he could be all the way up at nine and no one would be shocked by any of this, like, these guys are all wild have different skill sets, I think all are going to be within like very minimal points within each other. So, you know, it’s again, it’s roster construction, what you feel comfortable with, you know, doing your research within the within the offenses. You know, if you miss out on Davante Adams and you want a piece of the Green Bay offense because you know, Aaron Rodgers is coming back, Tanya is not a bad option. But then again, I take tonyan and either draft a second tight end or just expect to be streaming a little bit like this whole list right? outside of the top eight, right? I’m looking at this top eight going what I stream them or what I kind of keep them around and I think I’d kind of keep all these guys around for a bit longer. Goddard may be my one exception, but that’s just my personal take. Outside of that. I’m looking over at nine through 16 going yeah, I could drop them. I could pick them up. I could drop them again. Like it’s no big deal. Everyone hates Evan Ingram right now like honestly, he’s the guy. I’m kind of eyeballing because I still think he has top five talent like he had a couple drops last year everyone kind of you know, jumped down his throat about it, but he played a full season. So that was a plus. You know, his usage was was there at times, but the Giants didn’t have anybody else to catch the damn ball for a large part of last year. No say Kwan Sterling Shepherd was in and out with concussion Pro. In and out of concussion protocol, Darya Slayton had to go up against the top corner against every team now because of how he did in 2019 to finish the season. So Evan Ingram was kind of the only show in town. And if the Giants can do a better job of letting him run up the seam and create problems for safety’s, instead of just running these option routes, where maybe he’s on the wrong page as Daniel Jones, which is creating some of the drops in frustration, like, you can see Ingram climb up this board and end up inside the top eight, and I’d be perfectly happy with that.
Derek 1:27:59
Yeah, yeah, that’s kind of where I’m at as well. Um, yeah, I, when you’re looking at the nine through 16 list, I’m looking to see which one of those guys is going the latest in the draft. And that’s who I’m going to who I’m going to be targeting there. And yeah, again, right there in that 12 1314 type around there. Because with the tight ends, if you’re not getting really one of these top three guys, it’s better just to wait on the position, there’s so much more value you can get at what those adps of those other guys are going to be that I’m just gonna wait on that one but awesome, guys. Any other thoughts on either some Titan rankings? The Saints are thoughts in general.
Kevin 1:28:40
Not do your homework, right? I mean, look into this, get different opinions, or this is how we see it. You know, we’re, we sure like to be right, it’s our goal to be right, but there’s no guarantees. So do your homework, have some fun, we’re getting closer and closer to draft season, the news has been a little bit slow, and probably will be here for the next couple weeks. But teams are going to start hitting hitting camp here pretty soon, and then the real fund is going to start and that’s when things kind of get crazy. So you know, do your research, keep your ear to the ground, you know, keep a you know, a little notebook, right? If you hear a name and you keep hearing this beat writer or someone keep talking about them, you know, jot a name down, go Go do your own, you know, research and maybe you can find that diamond in the rough that all of us are missing and be able to ride them to a fancy championship.
Derek 1:29:35
Absolutely. Alex, any final thoughts?
Alex 1:29:40
I got to start drafting more. That’s what you do I fight?
Kevin 1:29:43
Yes, you do. Winning draft basketball teams because then you don’t Yeah, managing rosters, right? That’s the best balls you can kind of treat those in a bunch of different ways you hop on and whether it’s a free entry or just a $5 entry to kind of try some different things out. Either way. You’re not out a bunch of cash but Basketball is a beautiful way to just draft and you don’t have any of the commitments during the regular season. After it’s over you just call it good and see how the chips fall.
Derek 1:30:12
Yep, that’s, that’s one of my favorite things to do is doing the I actually figured it out last year I played in more basketball leagues than I did in dynasty redraft in any other format combined. Just because you’re able to hop on you’re able to do a couple of quick drafts there and and move on there without necessarily all the time commitment during the season but definitely gets you prepared for the for the redraft is coming up. And that’s one of my biggest tips if anybody asks, you know, hey, how do I how do I get ready to do that? You know, I always tell them to draft basketball, not necessarily to do a bunch of mock drafts because you’ll see people do a lot, you know, a lot more crazy things a lot of times in mock drafts. But in basketball, you’ll see them draft a little bit more true to form and what you’ll see happen in actual redraft leagues there so that’s always my my go to for advice and somebody that’s looking to try and get better at drafting or trying to draft better for the upcoming redraft season is to play some basketball leagues and there’s a ton of them out there you can find a ton of free ones out there you can find a ton of you know, cheap entries out there. So go out there play some basketball it’s a lot of fun guys I do believe that that’s kind of wrap up yet another episode of the good old boys fantasy football podcast make sure you’re tuning in next week we are going to hit up the what are we doing Yeah, we’re doing the the runningback rankings next week and wide receiver rankings the the week after that so lots of fun coming up there. We’ve already hit up the quarterback rankings. Hit up the tight end rankings. You’ll be able to find those on our website. goodoldboysff.com. Make sure you click on the subscribe button on Twitter, twitch YouTube. On the on that click the little bell. We do this show live every Tuesday night 11pm Eastern. Hit us up on the socials twitter instagram facebook at good old boys FF for Kevin and Alex. I’m Derek. Have a good one. Be safe.